experimenting that existing powders of the day would perform much Note that MV is estimated for a 20 inch barrel, not the 24 inch test barrel used to derive published factory load ballistics. In 1974, The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) established a +P designation for cartridges that are loaded to higher pressures, but specifications still had to be approved by SAAMI. case capacity of roughly 53.0 grains of water, many modern powders work to me several months later and was used successfully on antelope the Just remember that at those distances, even the smallest mistake can mean missing your target entirely. It even gave the proprietary .25 Niedner, which eventually became the .25-06 Remington, good reason to sweat. It features a straight-grained walnut Doesn't stretch cases like standard expander button style dies do. There apparently was not room in the rifle marketplace for two dual-purpose cartridges after the .243 Winchester was introduced and it bested the .244/6mm Remington, .250 Savage and .257 Roberts in the popularity contest, for whatever reasons. I've had 3 different Ruger 77's in 257 Roberts and all have shot really well. The biggest confusion, and most important issue, was whether +P cartridges could be fired safely in rifles built before the new ammunition came on the market. Vintage RCBS dies and CCI BR-2 primers were used to develop load data. If nothing else, it would have saved a lot of later confusion. 4.9. The .257 Roberts is popular, and most large ammunition companies offer +P loads. Assuming a field ready weight (rifle, scope, sling and cartridge load) of 8.5 pounds, the recoil of the Long Ranger rifle would fall between 9.0 and 10.0 ft. In 1 is a stout falling block-style action resembling the original Farquharson single shot, but with several modern refinements. The hunt would take place just north 5.0. Thats a tough question to answer. was the deciding factor of a host cartridge later to bear his name. Re: Ruger 77 Ultralight in 257 Roberts Accuracy Issues. Ned Roberts of New Hampshire was the other part, and in fact It may not be as A friend of mine has had 3 different .257 Roberts, 2 standard and 1 Ackley version. Since this was my first time out West for antelope, This rifle has been in my collection for decades and has proven accurate, and neither is it finicky in regard to loads and bullets that shoot well. Less than a decade later, the Niedner Rifle Company But out there where it counts, there is not that much of a difference in trajectory. My hope is one of these will be the .257 Roberts. of Israeli Defense Forces, joins David Fortier for an exclusive interview for Shotgun News. cartridge choice was an important. When it comes to sizing, I prepare all cases as if I was going It should also be noted that this data is intended for rifles built with a SAAMI specification chamber, so it might be problematic in rifles with a wildcat chamber. Energy increases were nothing to brag about. To begin the ballistic analysis of the loads, I used the point blank range calculator at www.shooterscalcualtor.com to calculate a +/- 3 inch maximum point blank range (MPBR) for the load. With these higher-pressure cartridges, the .257 Roberts can push a 117- or 120-grain boattail bullet about 2,800 fps, which allows it to step up to larger animals like elk and caribou at moderate distances. this number for consistency. Mossberg 500 vs 590: Which Shotgun Is Right for You? The .257 Roberts fell out of favor and has never regained market position versus the .243 Winchester. The shooter wanting flexibility needs to handload to experience the real Bob.. It became quite popular; however, just 21 years after being officially introduced, the .243 Winchester appeared and competed very effectively as a dual-purpose cartridge and ultimately became more popular. Try the old Roberts bullet. For primers, stick to standard brands. bullets were seated to the recommended overall loaded length of 2.780 Its versatile and can be used for a variety of game, from deer to elk. For several years he played with them. By the early 1960s, most manufacturers had discontinued chambering rifles for the Roberts, as demand for the .243 grew like wildfire. load of 41.0 grains under a 100-grain bullet, and I tried it with a But out there where it counts, there is not that much of a I full-length size all the cases, not just the For varmint shooters and coyote hunters, the Hornady 75-grain V-MAX is explosive and accurate. A transfer bar in the hammer makes the action inherently safe and eliminates the need for a manual safety that might be fumbled when a quick shot is presented.". In deference to the older rifles of questionable metallurgy, some loads like the Remington 117-grain round nose bullet leave the muzzle at 2650 fps. lbs. fps and zero the rifle for 200 yards, bullet drop at 300 yards is only Handloaded with 85- to 90-grain varmint bullets, the Roberts is as comfortable shooting spring varmints as it is hunting deer. The .257 Roberts is a fine deer cartridge that offers long barrel life, accuracy, moderate recoil and muzzle report. How far can you accurately shoot a 243? Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. Basically, he necked down the 7x57mm Mauser case to take .257 inch diameter (standard .25 caliber) bullets. results. Taurus has redesigned this sporting pistol for performance. Built with a 20 inch barrel, this rifle/caliber combination could become a hit with knowledgable hunters and Henry would own the .257 Roberts rifle market. The 257 Ackley Improved is another popular option among hunters. (The explanation of these indexes is abbreviated here, but is more fully discussed in the Appendix.). The 243 Winchester is also relatively inexpensive, making it a great option for budget-minded hunters. velocity was increased by roughly 130 fps and 100 fps, respectively. of recoil with a 7.5-pound rifle. Therefore, my main task here is to sell the proposition that the .257 Roberts is a better Class 2 game cartridge than the .243 Winchester. Savage Model 110 Timberline 6.5 Creedmoor Rifle: Full Review, Ruger MAX-9 9mm Micro-Sized High-Capacity Pistol: Review, Springfield Armory SA-35 Pistol: Rebirth of the Browning P-35 Hi-Power, Savage Impulse Straight-Pull Rifle: Full Review, .458 Winchester Magnum History: The Complete Story, 6.8 Western Ammo Options: The Load of Long Yardage, 10mm Firepower: Springfield XD-M Elite 3.8 Compact Pistol Review, A World Record Attempt: Practice Round and Media Day, Interview with Israeli Defense Forces, Part 1. just under 250 yards. This load has a MPBR of some 280 yards, but its EKR (KPS = 15) is only about 180 yards. From the .243s that I have had experience with, they seem to be more forgiving when it comes to bullet weight/configuration and accuracy. distances. The most common bullet weights are 87 and 100 grains. If (and only if) that is the case then the barrel is short (20") and the contour is very thin*. It should be noted that when using top performing powder measures such as Reddings Competition Precision Riflemans PR-50, many extruded powders can be thrown accurately. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. that no man ever spent so much time in perfecting a cartridge as Mr. As this article is written, our nation is in the midst of COVID-19, political unrest, rioting, etc., all of which has resulted in ammunition shortages. Redding 257 Roberts Neck Sizer Die Neck Sizing Dies is a special resizing die that leaves the cartridge body fire-formed and only resizes the case neck. Calling the output variable of the formula "KPS" (Killing Power Score), for a given load the formula is: KPS at y yards = (Impact Energy at y yards) x (sectional density x frontal area), or simply: For instance, consider the following .30-30 Winchester factory load: Hornady 150 gr. commercialization in the same year. When it comes to powders, because of its moderate Wrong! But if you are willing to put in the extra effort, the rewards are definitely worth it. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. ", "The Long Ranger is as accurate and reloader friendly as a bolt action, faster for repeat shots and the absence of a bolt handle sticking out of one side makes it more comfortable to carry, in the hand or slung over either shoulder. Noted gun and cartridge experimenter - Dr. Franklin Mann - was indeed a very important part of the .25-caliber concept. it for small game and varmints hunted at longer than normal shooting The Roberts launched the heavier bullets about 165 fps (7 percent) slower. YUGOSLAVIAN SKS RIFLE REVIEWS: THE PROS AND CONS OF THIS SOVIET-ERA WEAPON, This div height required for enabling the sticky sidebar, 2022 Yestactical.com We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Today, factory ammo from Remington (and Hornady and Winchester, too) shows only the 117-grain weight. Its been understandably eclipsed by more effective modern cartridges, but its Goldilocks combination of attributes should earn it a spot in gun safes of hunters for years to come. the handloading route. That could correct chamber issues? Here is a ballistics chart of the 257 Roberts with a 100-grain spitzer bullet: The commercialized version restored the 20-degree 45-minute shoulder angle of the parent 7mm Mauser case to be the cartridge we know today. 100 grain flatbase MAY be ok. New Ruger. Accuracy was around an inch; good enough to get my buck at just under 250 yards. By comparison, the fastest heavy bullet .257 Roberts factory load (Hornady Superformance) drives a 117 grain bullet at 2946 f.p.s. 5.0. Any thoughts of having it AI'd? shoulder angle to 20 degrees and paved the way to full I chose 20 inches, because the Henry Long Ranger rifle has a 20 inch barrel. Varget seems to be a barnburner with a 75-grain bullet, so I tried 41.0 What if .243 Winchester hunting loads with different bullet weights are considered? concept. ), .243 Win: Federal 100 gr. simply because of the Roberts conservative case volume. In discussions about the Roberts, the one theme I seem to hear repeatedly is that this classic is too slow. Why was the Roberts originally loaded down to .250 Savage pressures? 1 in .257. Manchester, Vermont, I found a brochure at the counter highlighting the The Guns and Shooting Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula uses downrange impact energy, bullet sectional density and bullet cross sectional area as input variables. Fortunately, there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this. I feel this even more strongly after making a detailed examination of the performance and capabilities of the cartridge. The Model 70 XTR Featherweight I took to Montana was fitted with a The .257 Roberts was designed in the 1920s when wildcatter Ned Roberts started to do experiments on the .257 caliber cartridges. No matter what i did to that gun, it was not accurate. to use them for hunting. Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. (All three of the .257 Roberts loads have KPS = 15 ranges that are longer than their MPBR distances.). .257 Load #1: Nosler Custom, 115 gr. Like the X-Files and duck gizzards, the .257 Roberts has earned the following of a small but passionate group of people who arent shy about their love for the quirky caliber. The only watch-point for the Hawkeyes in .257 Roberts is that I thought this was a limited production run originally billed as an ultra-light rifle. That old gun shot lights out. Niedner and L.C. The sizing The 257 Roberts is a classic cartridge that has been used for hunting medium-sized game for decades, while the 6.5mm Creedmoor is a newer cartridge that has gained popularity in long-range shooting competitions due to its excellent accuracy and low recoil. lbs., MPBR = 275 yards (Zero at 235 yards). Manage Settings Others may find that it lacks the stopping power necessary for large game animals or that it produces too much recoil for comfortable shooting. For the record, every To my knowledge, the only currently available .257 Roberts production rifle is the Kimber 84M Hunter bolt gun. Will have to check on twist. The hottest commercial .243 Winchester load I can find is quoted as driving a 100 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3120 f.p.s. There is a wide selection of .25-caliber bullets that have helped the Roberts become more versatile than ever. The .257 Roberts is a better deer cartridge than the .243 Winchester. Its perfect for deer, pronghorn, and even elk hunting. Its not a small game cartridge and its not a dangerous game cartridge. Bill Ruger's extraordinary No. some time. Both extruded (left) and spherical (right) powders can provide excellent results in the .257 Roberts. It was freaky accurate with Winchester 117g round nose loads. Townsend Whelen mentioned in one of his many books: I think Pretty pathetic, but I traded it off when it would only do two inches with numerous bullets. lbs. In each data set, the first line lists information about the load. All Rights Reserved. ), HITS less than 500: Small game (50 pounds or less), HITS 500 - 900: Medium game (50 - 300 pounds), HITS 900 - 1500: Large game (300 - 1500 pounds), HITS greater than 1500: Big Five & dangerous game (any weight). However, Remington still offers a standard pressure load that pushes the 117-grain Core-Lokt at a more leisurely 2,650 fps. It offers slightly higher velocity and energy than the standard 257 Roberts cartridge. The 243 Winchester is another popular hunting rifle caliber. from a 20 inch barrel. Our Sitemap. addition, Winchester and Hornady still turn out factory ammunition. Free shipping for many products! lbs.). small geographical areas, and Vermont was one of them. After extensive testing, he agreed. In discussions about the Roberts, the one theme I The Roberts became parent to one of the best-known wildcats of all time: the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved. This is a standard 100 grain .243 Winchester factory load at a MV of 2960 f.p.s. The cartridge was designed to be a versatile round that could be used for both hunting and target shooting. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Next, I developed a trajectory table for the load using the ShootersCalculator trajectory calculator. It seemed that the company was testing acceptance of such a reissued So if you are looking for a fast, versatile round that can handle anything you throw at it, the 257 Roberts should be at the top of your list. is 5.8 inches, a 1.25-inch difference. I wound up with more than a dozen powders to test, Despite the .257s ardent following, theres a reason its not as commonly chambered as other cartridges. Weldin It did not take long for custom riflemakers to begin building .25 Roberts rifles. My example is a Federal Premium .243 Winchester load with a 100 grain soft point spitzer bullet. I'm sure I'll get toasted, but if somebody is looking for "accuracy", a Ruger ain't the way to go. Nothing at all wrong with the Roberts as far as accuracy goes. Remember, this is from rifles with 20 inch barrels. Sadly, of my 257R rifles it is the least accurate. The procedure for determining the EKR of a particular cartridge and load is fairly simple and is most easily explained by an example. Handloading the Roberts unleashes its full potential. However, for milder cartridges, such as the .30-30 Winchester, there are range limits beyond which the effectiveness of vital area hits become questionable. produces 11 ft.-lbs. If you want the finest accuracy for your rifle, you'll need a heavy barrel military and police sniper rifle with a pillar bedded synthetic stock, fitted with. the time of this cartridges infancy, Dr. Mann conceded after much In this blog post, we will take a look at the stats and see which caliber comes out on top! The .257 Roberts first became available to hunters nationwide when Remington took the wildcat into factory production in 1934. To summarize, the .257 Roberts can drive 115 - 120 grain bullets to +/- 3 inch MPBR ranges of 265 yards (or more) with killing power that is more than adequate for deer and similar size game. I have several Rugers and shoot only factory loads. classification system uses an online calculator to produce a numerical HITS score for rifle cartridge loads. The .257 Roberts Ackley Improved. Whenever a load has a KPS = 15 range that is longer than its MPBR, I call the EKR of the load as being equal to its MPBR range. Incidentally, data developed with spherical powders should not be reduced below their starting charge weights, or erratic ignition and pressures can occur. Hodgdon The .257 Roberts is one of those cartridges that has a storied It offers significantly higher velocity and energy than the 257 Roberts. However, for handloaders wanting standard pressure data, starting and maximum loads should be reduced by 5 percent. In a couple of cases I have known a little faster powder makes a difference. hunt out West in the fall of 1982. The point is that a modern lever action rifle chambered for the Roberts would be a unique option for hunters, one that I believe would be well received. Remington produced the Roberts with three bullet weights derived from other cartridges. Remington's .25-06 is likely most responsible for killing the .257 Roberts, as the .25-06 offers an average 200 feet per second (fps) additional velocity over the Roberts . I surmise that development of the +P cartridge variant was an attempt to boost performance of the cartridge to velocity levels that would look better against the fast .243s. He said that he thought he could get a lot more velocity out of the Ackley over the standards, but found out that the best he ever got was about 100fps tops. ), 200 yard KPS = 18.4 (Energy = 1360 ft. (Commercial manufacture Remington Model 722 and 700, Winchester Model 54 and 70, Mauser Model 98 and Mannlicher-Schoenauer bolt action rifles in good condition should be fine. Mine has been killing Pa. whitetails for 40 years in . It remains a popular choice among hunters and shooters alike. Also have a 257 AI, watch your cases with that RL 17 load you are using. Its often used for varmint hunting, as it has excellent accuracy at long range. Performance of modern .257 Roberts factory loads. Its a perfect all-around gun, Kiff said. lbs. summer woodchucks to bigger game out West, I found this cartridge handloaded for use in the field. Have two in the house now. CCI BR2 primers were used, which serve to lower extreme velocity spreads and increase accuracy. velocity or wear and tear on the rifle or shooter. Nosler Partition bullet, BC .391, MV 2700 f.p.s. To allow the cartridge to reach its full potential, ammo companies in the 1980s began producing +P loads. using so-called +P brass. I noted the Effective Killing Range of the load. All rights reserved. These are mild recoil levels that would be conducive to comfortable, accurate shooting with the rifle and caliber. Offered in both 100- and 117-grain loads, It's not a screamer and it's not a slowpoke. Bullet weight is implicit in the KPS formula, because bullet weight is included in computing sectional density. At the Orvis flagship store in What's the Perfect Trigger Pull Weight for a Hunting Rifle? 5.0. Noted gun and cartridge experimenter yards or less. There is a wide selection of .25-caliber premium big-game hunting bullets that work well in the .257 Roberts. For example, Nosler lists the 100-grain Ballistic Tip at 3,000 fps, but from the 22-inch Ruger barrel actual velocity was 2,912 fps. What is the twist of your friend's 257 Roberts? The actual range at which the Roberts load falls to a KPS of 15 is 340 yards. That is well beyond the MPBR of the load. I then calculated the down range energy level that each load must have to achieve a baseline KPS value. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. Today, few The Roberts offers no real handloading challenges. Ultimately, it is important to select a caliber that meets your individual needs and preferences. animal over the length of a football field. Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a Mbius strip. Exact dates are uncertain, but by 1930, Griffin & Howe began chambering rifles and soon suggested to Roberts to leave the 7mm Mauser case full-length. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RCBS 257 Roberts Reloading Die Set 12501 rob full length fl at the best online prices at eBay! Once again, here is the strongest .257 Roberts factory load, as detailed above. Regardless, it remains popular today and is an excellent choice for hunters. When working with the .257 Roberts and my Model 70, I choose to go Loaded with 87 grain and lighter bullets, it serves well for dispatching large varmints and small predators. As with many old cartridges, the original .257 was loaded to lower pressures than what can be tolerated by stronger, modern actions. The .257 Roberts uses the same caliber bullets as .250 Savage or the more powerful .25-06 Remington. The .243 cartridge/load, being faster, must be better, right? Leupold Vari-X III 2.5-8x scope. According to Johnny Falk, in a letter dated in the last quarter of 1980, grains for a velocity of around 3,400 fps. Back in the 1980s, a press release showed that Joined Jul 21, 2013 Messages 853. Using the same 100-grain Ballistic Tip bullet, 50.0 grains of Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE powder recorded 3,176 fps for a 276-fps advantage! 117 gr round nose seated to near the rifleing. ), 100 yard KPS = 20.4 (Energy = 1826 ft. However, it is still best to weigh every charge if trying to squeeze out the utmost accuracy. As a result, I could not find .257 Roberts factory loads anywhere, and neither did my contacts at ammunition companies have any stock on hand. around .465) is an excellent choice. If ballistics are your only consideration, there are several other cartridges that can beat the .257 Roberts in a foot race. Maybe it was concern over chamber variations in custom guns. Available in different sizes and red dot ready, it'll fit your needs, whatever they are. Its the ultimate showdown of hunting rifles 257 Roberts vs 243. Ive also heard that it was because pre-1898 Mauser surplus rifles were the basis for early custom rifles firing the wildcat version, and they were perceived as weaker platforms. Subscriber Services. Some hunters may find that the 257 Roberts cartridge is an ideal round for medium to large game, while others may prefer a different caliber for these purposes. started turning out rifles in .25 Roberts but with the case extended . I considered writing this article as an actual poemsomething like John Keats Ode to a Grecian Urn, but with more pizazz and less skill. Thus, HITS scores are keyed to that distance. The most accurate Roberts I ever had, and sold like a fool, was a Browning Blr. Ruger's No. The .250 Ackley Improved was developed by Parker Otto Ackley, P.O. Group sizes and velocities are listed in the table. My Son recently bought a Kimber 84M Select Classic .257 Roberts that has been sub MOA with every load we've tried. ), 265 yard KPS = 16.2 (Energy = 1203 ft. bullets. The rifle was a Winchester XTR Featherweight that became available They are tougher than older 117- to 120-grain bullets and can penetrate as deeply while having a higher launch velocity. slightly below maximum as the extra powder does not help accuracy, Everyday American hunters still use the Roberts to take whitetail, hogs, and other medium-sized game. some bullets grouped better than others, and most loads were accurate The KPS formula makes a lot of sense to me. A World Record Attempt and everyone is out at the range shooting and practicing. They have the same bullet diameter, case length, and overall length. First on the list was IMR-3031 with lighter bullets. better under a .25-caliber bullet if the case capacity matched closely The original spec was a round on a short magazine but extended throat. A vintage Ruger M77R (tang safety) with a 22-inch barrel was selected to develop handload data. At The 243 Roberts is a great cartridge for deer hunting. Roberts spent on this one.. KPS = 15.0 (Energy = 1339 ft. The .257 Roberts remains a very popular rifle/cartridge combination for hunters throughout the country. It is arguably the perfect deer-sized cartridge. Hornady HITS scores for .257 Roberts and .243 Win. The .257 Roberts is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges. Loaded with 87 grain and lighter bullets, it serves well for dispatching large varmints and small predators. I am shooting a 20" suppressed Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 257 Roberts. I mentioned earlier that the .257 Roberts has a reputation for being a mild shooting cartridge. Partition, elk could also be on the menu! The companys first rifle was the 1/16 inch to increase powder capacity. following year. The effective killing range numbers for these two loads suggest that they are equal. In the years since, most other ammunition manufacturers have followed suit, including Hornady (117-grain SST at 2,946 fps), Federal Cartridge (Nosler 120-grain Partition at 2,800 fps) and NoslerCustom (100-grain Partition or Ballistic Tip bullets and the 110-grain AccuBond all at 3,000 fps, or the 115-grain Ballistic Tip at 2,800 fps). which this could make that much of a difference on a medium-framed The remaining (bullet pointed) lines summarize the results. If that roberts is an early one, I would bet it is in the barrel where the problem is. (SD is the ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of its diameter in inches.). In the last few decades of the 20th century, a reintroduction of .257 Roberts rifles from some majors let younger generations discover this venerable cartridge. (I adjusted this to a more normal 22 inch barrel length for a .243 hunting rifle. lbs. I have a tang safety M77 in the Roberts, and mine is very accurate. That's still less than the typical 60,000 to 65,000 psi of comparable modern rifle cartridges. The 87-grain and 100-grain loads were influenced by the .250 Savage, and the 117-grain load reflected the old .25-35 Winchester and .25 Remington cartridges. See The G&S Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula: Implications and Applications and Determining the Effective Killing Range of Rifle Cartridges for fuller discussion of the killing power formula and effective killing range concepts. Joseph Von Benedikt is with Jorge Spat to learn all about it. lbs., depending on the load in question. ), 200 yard KPS = 17.7 (Energy = 1371 ft. Hornady offers a variety of .25-caliber varmint and big-game hunting bullets that are ideal for the .257 Roberts. differed somewhat when it came to the subject of reloading the cartridge in both the Model 54 and Model 70 rifles. Back home, I called the Winchester public relations office. Flat shooting, low recoil, accurate, and deadly., Texas hunting guide Floyd Parr told us hes taken a wide variety of animals with the .257, including elk, whitetail, antelope, hog, black bear, axis deer, sika deer, fallow deer, and blackbuck. Those who reflect on the decline of the .257 Roberts as a significant heavy varmint and light big game cartridge almost always credit (or blame) the .243 Winchester.